Comments by Minister Dlamini Zuma
Good evening, it's good to be here.
Presenter
It's very different having you here as the Minister of Home Affairs. Dr Nkosazana Dlamini Zuma, just a little bit about this partnership and what the Department aims to do with this access that you are being given to South Africans on the ground.
Minister Dlamini Zuma
Well, firstly, let me just thank the management for giving us this opportunity because I think a department like Home Affairs needs support from the rest of the country, it requires a national effort so this will give us the opportunity to interact with the public for the public to tell us what we are doing well, what we are doing badly, how they think we should improve and we will also in due course be saying what we think we need to be doing, what we are doing. So I think this is a great opportunity for the department because it is a department that deals with peoples lives from cradle to the grave.
Presenter
Exactly, you are there when we are born, you are there when we get married (some of us), you are even there when we get divorced and of course, when we decide to kick the bucket you are there too.
Minister
Yes
Presenter
So, one would imagine that the relationship with someone who is there throughout your life is going to be a good one and hopefully that is what we will achieve during this show.
Minister
Yes, this is what we are trying to achieve and we are very grateful to you for this opportunity.
Presenter
I think this is great because as the media, at the end of the day, as we do with other departments as well, we do ask the tough questions, we do criticise where needs be but I do think that we have a responsibility to also form partnerships so that we can make people a lot better for, most importantly, the people on the ground, the people who count.
Minister
Yes, indeed, together we can do more
Presenter
Exactly. Now Minister, you have done an initial assessment. I don't think anyone can expect you to say with a wave of my magic wand this is how I am going to fix whatever needs to be fixed, you need to strategise, you need to look at things, speak to consultants, speak to advisors, and look at best practices and all the rest of it. But, you have done an initial assessment of this department. You were pretty honest about it. Just talk to us very briefly about this assessment, the key areas that you believe requires a lot of work.
Minister
Thank you, yes, I have had an initial assessment of course, at head office and I have also had the opportunity of visiting one provincial office. Basically, this is a department that interacts on a daily basis with people, with all their problems, from registering their children to IDs, marriages, to permits (those who come in from outside), death certificates, passports to those who want to travel, so there is that part of the work and it is the front offices, I think that require a lot of work, both in terms of ensuring people are served expeditiously, efficiently, and also with a smile as we all wish to be served. So, this is one area that I think needs to be addressed.
And, of course, we also at the same time need to improve the working conditions inside the offices so that the people who work there are motivated and feel they are working in a conducive environment. So, that is one aspect of it.
And of course, the other aspect to which I think we need to pay a lot of attention, As I arrived there was a change of structure in the department so there are lots of vacant posts that we will need to fill so that we indeed have a strong team to ensure the services are delivered efficiently. And of course, we also have the aspect of honesty and integrity of the documents we issue.
Now, it is very important for the public to understand that this is a very important department and that our population register is very important and therefore it is very crucial that we do not ask the officials of Home Affairs to do wrong things or get them to issue documents to people who should not have them because we need to know our documents are secure, their integrity is intact so we need the people to work with us.
The other thing I realised that alarmed me a bit was that every year between 56% and 60% of the documents that are issued are issued to people who have lost their documents. And in terms of numbers, it is more than a million documents to the work that we do every do is repeating what we have done before, wasting a lot of time and money so we have to work together with the public to ensure that people look after their documents and that indeed, people who seek documents to be reissued have really lost them in a way that was unavoidable but it is something that people must internalise.
They must look after their documents just as they look after their drivers licences, their bank cards, their house keys, this is the spirit in which we should look after our IDs so that the department can concentrate on issuing documents to people who have not had documents and replacing those who have lost their documents in unavoidable incidents. So, that is one big area that I think we should tackle together.
And of course, we have to work together in dealing with asylum seekers because we are also in charge of asylum seekers and ensure they are documented because it is very important. There should be no one in the country who is undocumented. Everyone should be documented whether they are South African citizens or not. So that is another area that I think needs a lot of attention.
And, of course, we also look after the ports of entry. We do not look after the borders but we look after the ports of entry airports, ports or border posts – so, that also requires a lot of attention because we are the face when people arrive for the first time in South Africa immigration officers are the first people that entrants to South Africa encounter so we are the first contact with the people who are visiting South Africa whether at the border gates or airports, or the ports.
So, these are the areas that need to be attended to.
Presenter
Madame Minister, right at the beginning you said people had to be greeted and treated with a smile, you also spoke of working conditions for the staff of Home Affairs at the ports of entry or the home affairs offices and I think these are intrinsically linked.
I don't mind waiting an extra hour for something. If someone tells me to fly a kite with a smile I will probably enjoy flying that kite. But if someone is rude, that is a different story and I will get agitated. I think this initial attitude, at the ports of entry specifically, is it very important that we treat citizens well in South Africa our own citizens and those visiting us for the first time or repeat visitors.
Question Minister, thank you for the lovely new call centre you have come up with. They seem to be very efficient in answering calls. I submitted my application for a passport on 7 April 2009 and have followed up a number of times.
I then followed up on Monday to ask if my passport is ready. I was told it was still being printed. This then amounts to about 8 weeks. I argued with the person on the phone saying I am scheduled to fly on 12 June 2009 and I need my passport. The lady tried to help me and said a case would be opened. My problem is with the turn around time. It is so frustrating there is a lovely call centre but no assistance is offered.
Presenter Let the Minister talk about turn around time in general, I don't think she will be able to respond to this particular case.
Answer (Minister Dlamini Zuma) please let me have your details so I can assist you in leaving on 12 June 2009. But let me just explain there is indeed a problem with the passports at the moment. The problem is Home Affairs launched a new passport machine on 8 April 2009 and this passport machine is very efficient but also very security conscious and it is made to capture information online, to capture your photo online. It is not a machine that is meant for forms to be filled and photos to be delivered in hard copy.
So, what happened was that the old machine was retired, the new machine was started but there was no back up system that allows people to go to Home Affairs when they apply for their passports and be captured online as the machine requires. So, what they found was that when the normal photos were processed through the machine it rejected them. And so, now they have got some new instrument which tries to enhance the photo so that it does look like an online photo and that has slowed down the work so what we are trying to do now is to see if we can to some off the offices, but we are trying to begin with 40 offices where people can go and get everything online so that the passports can be printed quickly. The machine itself is very efficient. It can print 4 000 passports in an hour but unfortunately the system that feeds it has not been adjusted and that is what is causing these delays. We are very sorry about it but we doing something to correct it.
Presenter we will definitely follow this up Minister.
Suggestion Minister, I have a suggestion, I think our government departments definitely need managers from the private sector. I say this because a lot of managers in departments are people who have been working in the department for many years and I don't see them being able to bring any change or support to what you will be trying to do. I think this is one of the reasons South African Revenue Service (SARS) has been so successful.
Minister Yes, I think this is a good suggestion if we can afford such managers. But if not, we have to train our own people but we can mix managers. It is a good suggestion.
Question Colonial masters imposed conditions on this country and now they are doing exactly the same thing, for instance when we apply for visas to enter the UK, they charge us entry fees. Does the Minister have any ideas on how to reciprocate on this?
Answer (Minister Dlamini Zuma) Yes, there are two parts to this – one of the problems that caused the UK to request visas from South Africa was that our documents were not tightly controlled and therefore they were landing in the hands of non South Africans and they would then allow those people to enter the UK without a visa only to find that although these were South African passport holders, they were not South Africans.
I think if we can tighten this and ensure our documents are in the right hands then we can have case to reciprocate but we think we must first ensure we tighten up the acquisition and security of our documents and then if they still insist on a visa when there is no reason to do so, then we can reciprocate.
Presenter I hope you can now understand where the colonial masters are coming from…
Question Minister, I would like to suggest – I think a problem sometimes arises when we have people from the eastern cape working in Giyane, then we start having problems with spellings, etc. Wouldn’t it be best if you have the right people at the right places, for instance, having people in the place where they will be familiar with the local cultures. Perhaps this would minimise on wastage.
On the issue of dual citizenship – how is it that you have both a South African and British passport and someone with a South African passport together with one from Lesotho. I would like you to please elaborate on this.
Answer (Minister) Yes, I think we can look at your first suggestion not to replace the entire workforce but to ensure there are some people who would understand the issues you have raised. I think this is a good point.
On your second issue, the South African policy allows for dual citizenship. Now, there are countries which allow it and there are countries that don’t. But South Africa, up to now, does allow for this. You can be a South African and still have British citizenship if they allow dual citizenship in Britain. So, therefore you would be entitled to whatever the citizens of both South Africa and Britain are entitled to. But, because some countries don't allow this, their citizens cannot allow this dual citizenship although South Africa allows it.
Question Minister, I would like to complement you and the Minister for putting a public face on public services. There are some things that the department is doing well. I have travelled a lot recently and have always received professional services on my return. Perhaps this should be replicated at provincial offices.
Minister Thank you very much. We will let them know so that they can continue in this way and we will try to do that at provincial offices as well.
Question Minister, I salute you for your initiatives in trying to fix the Department. I am a South African citizen married to a foreigner for four years now. I extend my wife’s permit every few months. Is my wife allowed to work on her present permit, it says accompanying spouse? Does she require a work permit?
Answer (Minister) Yes, as far as I know, she is allowed to work if she has a permit because she is married to you and you are living here. I don’t think she requires a work permit because she is with you. I will check but as far as I know, this is the policy.
Question Minister I applied for a passport in Witbank in December last year. They forwarded it to Durban; they then registered it to the Witbank office. I did not bother to look at it assuming all would be in order but a friend of mine looked at it on Monday and asked me whether I knew that my passport had expired. I said that was impossible since I had only applied for it in December 2008. I was told the computer had generated the problem when I called them it turns out they put in date of issue as 1 January 1999 and date of expiry 1 January 2009. I was also told that I had apparently applied for the passport in Durban. I have not been to Durban in 35 years.
Presenter Minister, obviously this could be a systems problem?
Answer (Minister) obviously someone made a mistake or it was simple inefficiency. If you leave your details we will try and sort it would for you.
Question Minister, I am hoping you can restore South Africa's credibility and respect in the rest of the world. South Africa was given two years to fix our ID and passport situations. Botswana and Namibia managed to get it right. I am asking that you report to us every month on where we stand in regaining our credibility. I really feel we must get our respect back and that the UK can perhaps drop the visa requirements. Perhaps all of those working with passports should be moved to another Department and we should request the British government to assist us in restructuring the department. Then we will get some credibility and honesty back. I do hope you can report back on this every month.
Presenter, thank you for your call. I wouldn't heap too much praise on the United Kingdom, I don't know if you have been reading the telegraph recently. People have been resigning.
Answer: (Minister) I think giving a report every month might be difficult, at least at the beginning because we might not get everything right. But, I do want to say we all have the same objective to restore the security of our documents and to ensure the world can believe that when they see someone carrying a South African document, they can be assured that person is a South African. This is going to require a national effort.
It is going to require that we all report wrong doing when it occurs, make sure you are part and parcel of transforming this Department. Part of the reason we agreed, as you say it is brave to do this, is because we want South Africans to assist us in transforming this department. We cannot say that we can present a report every month at the beginning but maybe we can in due course update you on what we have managed to achieve. But we will take you along with what we are doing and when we start getting results we will also take you along.
Presenter: Obviously Minister, from a security point of view, post 9/11 these things are important and I can understand why the UK has decided to do this. Security has heightened globally and one of the key checks and balances in place would be passports. This is something we are working on as a country right now.
Question Minister, I have personal problem. I went to the Home Affairs office in Alberton. I had a common law wife who passed away. Our children are registered in her surname. I was told to bring the legal documents. The office in Alberton did not help me and sent me to Kempton Park. I was told that the children were too young to have their surnames changed. No one has been able to help me.
Answer: (Minister) I think we should take your details and you must provide your ID number and all other relevant information and we will try to assist you.
Presenter: The Minister can obviously not deal with specifics but what we can do is take your details and act on these to ensure your challenges can be resolved.
Question I want to relate two positive stories – I had to travel to the east rather urgently last year and I received by passport in 5 days (Minister, oh good). The second story is that I received an unabridged birth certificate for myself, my wife and her father in 10 days so that I could apply for a visa to the States. I was really impressed.
Minister what office was that so that I can convey your praises?
Answer The Edenvale office for the passport and the birth certificates at the Malibongwe Drive office. I also have a suggestion for the Minister – when you stand in the queues you have these people that work for passport companies that apply for passports on behalf of people. This impacts on those of us who are already standing in the queue. Perhaps this can be sorted out.
Minister we will look at this.
Presenter Minister we also received an sms regarding fixers applying for passports at Beit Bridge – for R150 the passport application can be forwarded to the front of the queue. So, this is along the same lines as what the caller has just said.
Question Minister, I would like to make a suggestion to the Minister – my father is a permanent resident of South Africa and I was born in Lesotho. I wanted to join him in South Africa. I was told I had to apply for a study permit. Two years later I married a South African. I was then told I should have had a permanent residence permit. I would like to suggest that we are told once exactly what we need to do and what documentation is required. I am not sure if they are not properly educated or do not have the necessary skills but I thought they should begin to do what they are employed to do.
Minister I agree but it would help if you have names when you encounter such situations so that we can deal with employees directly to advise them of what they should have said or how they could have handled the situation. We are looking at introducing training for employees because indeed, some of them are not properly trained.
Presenter: This is the same sort of training that many businesses would have. You have a brand that you need to protect, the brand has a personality and the people you meet when you walk in the door represent that brand. They need to be able to live the brand value.
Comment Minister, I think you have some very good offices and you have some very bad ones the bad ones first, the one on (inaudible) Street near Parliament is very dirty, the one in Bellville is also very unpresentable, overcrowded and unresponsive. If you then look at those in Malmesbury which can be a sterling example of good service delivery, responsiveness and a good example of living up to the Batho Pele principle. The problem I have is that of the registration of deaths especially regarding the rural and farming communities because they have to travel to city centres, this is very expensive and remains have to lie in mortuaries for many days while the paperwork is completed. I think we should attempt to resolve this situation or meet the communities halfway. I think you have the will and determination to turn these situations around.
Presenter Minister I think this has been a good hour.
Minister: This has been a good experience and I think that as we do this on a monthly basis, we will be taking your suggestions and giving you feedback. I think let’s walk together, let's fix Home Affairs together. Thank you
Presenter Thank you very much Minister Dlamini Zuma, I am looking forward to the next one.
Minister so am I. Thank you
Enquiries:
Ronnie Mamoepa
Cell: 082 990 4853
Issued by: Department of Home Affairs
4 June 2009
Source: Department of Home Affairs (http://www.dha.gov.za)
