Conference, Presidential Guesthouse, Pretoria
17 October 2007
Closing remarks
President Thabo Mbeki
President Lula, Prime Minister Singh we are about to conclude what we all
agree has been a very successful session of the session of the
India-Brazil-South Africa (IBSA) Summit.
We are all very pleased it has focused on achieving results and in
understanding the work IBSA must do to produce practical results that we
require to respond to all of the challenges that all our countries face.
As part of the focus on this practical issues and as an expression thereof,
there will be a signing of a number of agreements further to consolidate this
co-operation.
We are also very pleased indeed, having listened to the reports of the
various working groups â both governmental and non-governmental including
women, civil society, parliament â with the work that is going on and indeed
remarked on the fact that the attractiveness of the IBSA process to all our
populations in generating this attention. We would want the media to assist
with regard to the communication of the work of IBSA because it is quite clear
that the populations in each of our countries are interested in this work and
indeed, the point was made that the implementation of the IBSA process has
raised hopes amongst our people and they expect to hear what it is that we are
doing.
We will of course meeting in India in 2008 for the third IBSA Summit. We
already have an agenda and a particular point of focus in that agenda would be
the issue of social development. We must therefore ensure the co-ordination and
integration of all our programmes to ensure they actually have this impact and
result in an inclusive anti-poverty process of development.
So I want to say thank you very much to the Prime Minister, President and
their delegations for coming to South Africa.
And thank you to the Ministers and officials for the work they have done,
including the business people, parliament and civil society representatives and
the women for all the work that has been put in to give flesh to the work of
IBSA.
Closing Remarks by Prime Minister Singh
President Mbeki and President Lula da Silva, participants in the
parliamentary, academic, business and women's fora, ladies and gentlemen, I am
very happy to say our deliberations have been most fruitful. We have discussed
ways and means of pooling our strengths and limited resources to the maximum
benefit. This gives me confidence that the IBSA process is moving into a phase
where our trilateral co-operation would show concrete positive results. This is
a tribute to the wise leadership provided by both President Mbeki and President
Lula da Silva. I for one have greatly benefited from their tremendous wisdom,
knowledge and experience.
President, IBSA is a unique model of transnational co-operation. Our three
countries come from three different continents but we share similar world views
and aspirations for our people. If we can make a success of our model for
co-operation based on collective self-reliance it will serve as an example for
all other developing countries. We have today found a renewed convergence of
interest on major international issues of contemporary importance. We need to
forge the closest possible co-operation so that we can together ensure a more
equitable international political and economic order.
The world is already looking upon the IBSA framework as a significant step
forward for the global partnership for development. We had a very constructive
discussion on the Doha Round of Trade negotiations. This has emerged as an
important issue facing the international community in which each of our three
countries has an important stake. We remain committed to working towards
securing a balanced, equitable and successful outcome of these
negotiations.
The IBSA process has enabled parliamentarians, civil society, academia, mass
media, women and other segments of society to engage with each other. We
greatly value their contribution in reinforcing the efforts of the three
countries.
Over a period of time IBSA should emerge as a peoples movement committed to
a vision of people centred development. The high level involvement of business
and industry in IBSA is particularly encouraging. Governments can only do so
much. We should leverage public-private partnerships to fill funding gaps and
increase the scope of our co-operation.
The IBSA process must lead to the expansion of trade, technology and
investment links between our three countries. The agreements and the
declaration that we will be signing will provide a new impetus to our
co-operation. They reflect our emerging key priorities. The implementation of
the decisions we have taken today should be carefully monitored and a regular
system of feedback should be put in place.
I am confident that under the chairmanship of South Africa and the guidance
of President Mbeki the framework of IBSA will acquire even greater resilience
and dynamism in time to come.
I am most grateful to President Mbeki for his warm and generous hospitality
we have received during our stay in this beautiful country of South Africa.
Thank you very much and see you all in New Delhi.
President Lula da Silva
My last words President Mbeki are off acknowledgement and gratitude to you
and in recognition for the efforts that your government made to hold such a
well organised IBSA Summit.
Secondly, once again, I would like to publicly recognise the warm treatment
we have received in South Africa each time we have visited.
I believe that, and I would like to make an appeal to the Brazilian press,
it would be important that South Africa should be better publicised in Brazil
and India and that Indian media should better publicise South Africa and Brazil
should be better publicised in both countries so that our people can become
more acquainted with each other.
And the third aspect, Prime Minister Singh and President Mbeki, I would like
to give my testimony when we are inaugurated into government the first
international engagement such a head of state or government attends is filled
with enchantment, curiosity and novelty. And secondly, in the life of a ruler,
from the second meeting, he begins to get disappointed. Why so?
Because he perceives that there is a huge wall preventing the implementation
of decisions that have been taken.
Another moment in the life of a ruler is the contact he has with the reality
in the moment he reaches maturity. He has to understand that the decisions made
are never as we wish them to be with our bureaucracy. They never work as
quickly as we would like them to work. There is one or other bureaucrat that
does not prioritise matters. This reality is starting to change when we start
to print a certain pace in the bureaucracy. This takes a while. Those that
reach power through democratic means and decide to participate in international
fora in a democratic way realise that everything takes time.
IBSA is one such thing. I am very surprised at the quality of decisions that
were made at the second summit meeting and I am very happy because in this
second Summit meeting we managed to produce things that we did not manage to
produce in so many other Summit meetings in which we have participated.
So what happened here? I'll give you my opinion.
First of all, the political convergence that exists between India, Brazil
and South Africa.
Secondly, the ideological profile between President Mbeki, Prime Minister
Singh and President Lula is quite similar.
Thirdly, seriousness of our Cabinet Ministers and our staff.
Fourth, we trust in each other.
So that is why we were capable of producing a statement of the quality we
have produced. So I believe that if we start to have such a great affinity
between India, Brazil and South Africa that many polemic subject matters need
not be discussed because we will know that the reply of one brother will be the
same as the reply of the other brother because we have common interests and
objectives and we want the best for our people and those countries have not yet
reached the standard of developed countries. They still continue to be less
developed or very poor countries.
I leave this meeting very happy because the social movement's participation
has given us an extraordinary participation and I know that in South Africa,
India and Brazil, we have so many social movements that they could give their
contribution and it would be very difficult for us to make a mistake in our
decision making processes if we have the humility to listen to those who are
the reason we govern our respective countries.
There is no question that the next summit meeting in India will be even more
successful and there is no question that IBSA could be a bloc, a movement,
whatever you may wish it to become, IBSA will bring extraordinary results in
what we propose ourselves to do.
First of all, Prime Minister Singh I would like to say how happy I am to
have met you. President Mbeki, you know how happy I am to have participated in
various meetings with you. I believe we have reached an important moment in our
political lives. We know what we want how to achieve that and that we can do
much more than what we have achieved thus far. For that, we need to say to our
people that from South Africa, India and Brazil we can build a new model, a
participatory model in the multilateral world.
Thank you very much and congratulations.
Press conference
Remarks by President Thabo Mbeki
Ladies and gentlemen, I had thought you were present when closing statements
were made and I do not want to make those statements again but really to
emphasise that it has indeed been a very successful meeting, very focused on
the practical work that should be done with concrete agreements with regard to
these elements of our work.
You heard President Lula say we think it would be very important you study
the Declaration we are making which carves the work that has been covered.
Beyond that, I really want to express our appreciation that both the Prime
Minister and the President came with their important delegations that
accompanied them â both governmental and non-governmental delegations.
Remarks by President Lula da Silva
As President Mbeki has said, the essential elements have been heard by the
press during our closing remarks.
I am convinced that slowly we can innovate and results can become more
promising and productive.
India, South Africa and Brazil strive so there can be a reform in the United
Nations (UN) Security Council and we will never give up. We have decided to
together discuss the Doha Round, building a common thought so that we can
actually make the Doha Round as it is called. If it is to be called the
developing round it is necessary all our thoughts are linked that if we go from
a scale of the poorest country to the richest country, the country that must
earn the most is the poorest country and as we go up that scale, the richest
countries will make a few concessions on what they have benefited from for so
many decades. We are not doing anything radical. We are dialoguing on the
negotiating table. We want to reach an agreement at Doha but it is necessary
that countries that are more in need should be the winners and not only those
that are the most privileged.
In the same way, India, South Africa and Brazil are convinced that we have
not yet explored even 10% of what is possible in our trade, economic and
investment exchange as well as science and technology, agriculture and other
forms of exchange. So that is why IBSA is very important because IBSA is making
it possible that our governments become more acquainted with each other not
only the Prime Minister and the two Presidents but the country structure and at
the same time, our business, trade unions, intellectuals, artists, women and
social movement become more acquainted with each other.
This is why IBSA is an extraordinary innovation â three large nations, three
historical experiences that are extraordinary, three nations that were
colonised and today three nations that are free, sovereign, and do not wish for
anything more than to take decisions that determine their own fate and to
change the trade geography of the world so that those who are more in need can
achieve what they need to.
Thank you
Prime Minister Singh
I am very happy with our discussions today. They were constructive, wide
ranging and productive of solid results.
This gives me the confidence that the IBSA framework is truly taking off.
The parliamentary, academic, business and women's fora have also had lively
exchanges. Two new working groups have been established â one on climate change
and environment and human settlement. We have agreed on a comprehensive joint
declaration and have also signed a number of trilateral agreements.
The expansion of our agenda and the broad based participation reflects the
immense potential our people see in IBSA.
Our discussions show that there is a convergence of views on many important
international issues. We had useful discussions on the Doha Round and we will
work towards securing a balanced, equitable and successful outcome of these
important talks.
We had a discussion on strategies for social development and I am very happy
that a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) was signed for co-operation in this
area. Each of our countries is implementing creative social programmes such as
Brazil's (inaudible) programme and South Africa's Accelerated Skills
Development Programme (AsgiSA). We have a lot to learn from each others
experiences in promoting people centred equitable social development.
There is immense enthusiasm in our trade and industry for trilateral
co-operation. We have set a trade target of US$ 15 million to be reached by
2010. I am confident that we will achieve this target even before this
date.
We agreed to finalise the India-Mercosur-Southern African Customs Union
(SACU) Free Trade Agreement.
I once again thank President Mbeki and the government of South Africa and
invite all colleagues to the third IBSA Summit in India in 2008.
I thank you
Questions and answers
Question: The IBSA declaration talks of exploring forward looking
co-operation in the field of using nuclear energy for peaceful purposes. Does
that mean that Brazil and South Africa will support India in the Nuclear
Suppliers Group and what is the specific form of this co-operation?
Answer: (President Mbeki) The Nuclear Suppliers Group, as you are aware, has
been discussing the matter you have raised. So it is work in progress and
indeed, the discussions have been taking place. As you know, South Africa is
chairing that particular group and we are having very good discussions to
address all matters. So, it is work in progress
(President Lula) We worked on the nuclear issue in the interests of
complying with all the existing protocols within the UN framework and with a
strong appeal for using nuclear energy for scientific purposes and at the same
time to show to the rest of the world that it is possible that serious minded,
responsible countries could reach nuclear agreements without causing panic to
whoever it may be.
Question: Two questions to President Lula â firstly you speak of infinities
between the two countries and this week a document leaked from the Indian
government states that the Indian government is proposing lower tariffs than
those proposed in the Non-Agricultural Market Access (NAMA). So I would like to
know if this study could influence the position of the Brazilian government. My
second question is: in this trip to Africa, you have harshly criticized the
European Union (EU) and United States (US) â did you use the same type of
criticism in your conversation with President Bush?
Answer: (President Lula) In relation to the document leaked from the Indian
government: if this is a leaked government and it has not been publicised by
the government of India, I cannot comment and consider it an official
document.
If it is an official document, India and Brazil have sufficient maturity to
know how to resolve their divergences at the negotiating table.
I am not acquainted with the document.
The second question: I did not make tough criticism to the EU and US â I
just mentioned the facts that are going on in the Doha Round and I have been
saying out the figures, that is to say, on the agricultural market access in
Europe the figures that are being proposed by the Europeans are not clear
yet.
There are many things that are not yet defined. The subsidy issue â one we
proposed from US$ 13 billion to US$ 16,5 billion so what I said to President
Bush was that in 2006 the US subsidies were only US$ 11 billion so why proposed
17 or 16 or even US$ 13 billion so very bluntly I could say that we are not
negotiating in a friends club. What we have at stake are interests that we are
trying to achieve consensus on so that the poorest can win something so that
the developing countries can win something to. But the rich countries have to
make the concessions.
What is being proposed is that concessions in industrial goods are much more
than they want to concede on in agriculture. We are very calm. The conversation
I had with President Bush, I had with Chancellor Merkel and Prime Minister
Gordon Brown.
President Mbeki and Prime Minister Singh talk to President Bush and Prime
Minister Brown as well.
So we are talking everyday to find a result.
The fact of the matter is that South Africa, India and Brazil have a
willingness to reach an agreement. It is necessary that we must take into
account two things: the poorest countries must have agricultural market access
to the rich countries and the rich countries cannot strangle the possibility of
industrial development of the poorest countries.
So what we want is a balance and this is what I said to President Bush and I
will continue to talk with all the people because I do have the interest to
reach an agreement.
It is important for me to stress that India, Brazil and South Africa have a
common agreement during the negotiations at Doha.
Question: President Lula, Prime Minister Singh, you would like to see a
reform of the UN Security Council in terms of your inclusion amongst the other
countries. Some of the progress towards this goal has been blocked by some of
the failure of the African countries to reach some agreement. Do you believe it
is time for South Africa to state its case, join the G4 and therefore advance
the case for the reform of the UN Security Council more effectively?
Answer: (Prime Minister Singh) it is our ardent desire that the Group of Four
and the African Union should work together. This matter has come up for
discussion and it is our hope and expectation that our brothers in the African
Union will find ways and means to co-ordinate their strategies with the G4.
(President Lula) Africa is welcome to the G4 and we are certain South Africa
has to be at the UN Security Council as a permanent member. What we are
proposing is something that I think is quite reasonable: the UN Security
Council as it stands today does not represent the new geo-political situation
in the world
Secondly, there are a lot of new countries that are now in the focus â they
have transformed themselves as important countries in their continents and we
believe it is necessary for all those who are major representatives of their
continents to be represented at the UN Security Council so that when the
Security Council makes a decision this decision should be implemented and
respected.
We cannot see what happened at the UN with Iraq happen again. If the UN does
not have a position to draft a resolution and expect compliance, it loses
credibility and is meaningless to have an agency like the UN.
So what we want is to pass the UN reform â there is consensus but there are
people who are raising some ideas that we cannot have permanent seats or the
right to veto. I am against the veto: no one is superior so no one has the
right to veto a collective decision.
Secondly, we are not yet choosing who is going to the UN Security Council.
First, we need to establish the criteria for the reform and then with a
criterion that has been approved in each continent we will choose the countries
that want to participate. Brazil makes it clear it wants to participate, as
does India. Germany makes it clear it wants to participate as does Japan.
Africa should have at least two representatives because it is a large
continent.
So, obviously those are accommodating those seats do not want a change but
we believe that the world demands and needs a change in the UN. Multilateral
institutions can do much for than they are doing now for peace in a more
representative way.
Question: The IBSA Declaration talks of the peaceful uses of nuclear energy.
Prime Minister, how does one reconcile and balance it out with domestic
political constraints and compulsions?
Answer: (Prime Minister Singh) Well, the process of achieving meaningful
consensus in India is still a long one.
Question: Presidents Lula and Mbeki and Prime Minister Singh, how will this
South-South co-operation manifest itself not just amongst the three countries
but the rest of the countries of the other continents who are not represented
today? And President Lula, when you say that the poor people will not be the
dessert on the table of the rich people, is this a new way of speaking?
Answer: (President Lula) Just a correction: what you have said is not what I
said â I did not say that the poor will be served as dessert at the tables of
the rich. I did not say that. What I said is that we would not enjoy going to a
meeting to eat the dessert while the others have eaten the main course before
we arrived. That is a different matter. We do not want to participate only to
eat the dessert, we want to eat the main course, dessert and then coffee.
In relation to the agreements and South-South co-operation, we have many
fora created in the world in which the different countries from the South
participate and IBSA is the movement that was created by three countries. We
are still maturing. This is only the second summit. But we are maturing fast
and are already proposing an agreement between Mercosaur-India and SACU. We are
proposing an agreement that could benefit lower tariffs for the poorest
countries in Africa. We also have an agreement with other countries that are
part of the South. So for us, what we want is: to increasingly strengthen
South-South relations. I believe we are not well acquainted. I believe we have
to intensify relations so that we can one day, achieve the same standard and
quality of living that the countries in the North enjoy.
(President Mbeki) IBSA is an initiative between three countries and its
first point of focus is co-operation amongst three countries so that together
we can pool many things in order to address the common challenges of
development, social cohesion, social development, inclusivity, poverty,
unemployment and so one and being able to participate effectively in the global
economy.
But indeed as President Lula has said, the India â Mercosaur â SACU
agreement already brings in other countries into this process. And indeed, as
President Lula has said, we co-operate on a whole range of matters. The
question has been mentioned about discussions amongst ourselves on how to speed
up the Doha Development Round so it can be concluded as soon as possible and
correctly so, to address the matter President Lula has mentioned we are adding
our voice to that of the other developing countries with regard to the
achievement of those objectives.
And finally, I must say that we have also mentioned this that we have set up
a fund to assist in other developing countries. There is a project in
Guinea-Bissau, in Haiti. We are looking at other projects in other countries â
indeed, also addressing and ensuring that that fund works properly so that our
pooled resources can also assist to respond to challenges that countries that
are less developed than us and with fewer resources can also benefit. That is
the impact it will have on the issue of South-South co-operation and I'm sure
you already know that at the UN in December 2006 an award was given to IBSA
because the way in which it is working is in itself a message to other
countries of the South that this message of South-South co-operation should not
remain at a conceptual and theoretical level but must translate into a
practical programme of action such as you see in IBSA.
(Prime Minister Singh) We are three large functioning countries with respect
for human rights, the rule of law, three are many similarities between our
three countries. Our co-operation seeks to take advantage to these
complementarities to bring about a people centred approach to development. It
is not directed at other developing countries. In fact, we will use this
trilateral co-operation to bring in other countries â Mercosaur, SACU relations
with our three countries. Therefore it is a relationship to explore mutual
benefits, the potential of co-operation between our three countries, using our
strength to help the countries of the South as a whole to gain their rightful
place in the committee of nations.
Question: President Mbeki and President Lula da Silva, until when will
India, South Africa and Brazil need to get acquainted until we see real
movement forward of the IBSA objectives? We do not seem to see the timeframe in
which the objectives will be achieved.
Answer: (President Mbeki) we are very acquainted with each other. The point
that was made, which I think is a very important point: it was really address
to you, the media â it is important that the media should assist with regard to
communicating with the general public in each of our countries about the other
countries. For instance, I can say this here â take the South African press,
how much does the South African press cover Brazil? It does not. So the
population of South Africa becomes unacquainted with Brazil. How much does the
South African press cover India? It doesn't. So that was the appeal being made.
It was not an acquaintance amongst ourselves?
I think this is a genuine appeal because where you have these genuine
processes taking place focused on changing people's lives and people centred
development as Prime Minister Singh has just talked about it really is sad that
the people with the possibility to communicate to the millions of people ignore
that when there are very important developments taking place under their
noses.
So with regard to progress, you will look at the documents as we were
saying: one of the things you will see is the very rapid expansion of trade
amongst the three countries. Any notion that this co-operation among the three
countries is not moving is false. This may arise from the lack of familiarity
with what is happening. I have just mentioned the fact that we have set up a
development fund and the fact that we are already funding projects in poorer
countries - Guinea Bissau, Haiti. There are other projects we are looking at in
other countries.
So, we have agreed, you will see in the documentation, on the various steps
we need to take to advance this co-operation in all sorts of fields.
Prime Minister Singh has mentioned we need to ensure the volume of trade
amongst ourselves reached US$ 15 million by 2010. That is a timeframe and you
would see it reflected in the agreements reached in the IBSA Business Council.
This is not just a sentiment. For instance, in the agreement signed by three
companies to set up a joint venture Information and Communication Technology
(ICT) to precisely express this co-operation amongst the three countries.
So I was saying, you might have heard us mention at the close of the meeting
that we are meeting in New Delhi in 2008 and the timeframe we have set is that
with regard to all of the working groups they have to give some specific
reports and seek to secure deliverables by the New Delhi Summit in 2008. That
is a timeframe.
We want to focus the 2008 Summit on the challenge of social development so
that we do indeed bring together all of the different interventions that are
being made so that we are able to say: are we in fact together addressing this
challenge of having a people centred society.
So, we know one another very well.
The real challenge is you people who have this responsibility.
I really do hope you have a look at what is happening because I am quite
convinced that what is happening in this IBSA context is very worthy of proper
reporting to the public.
(President Lula) I believe that it is important to travel in time to
understand the importance of IBSA. IBSA does not have a timeframe if one day
the world no longer needs projects to aid the poorer nations then we will no
longer need IBSA.
But let's see what is happening: South Africa â not long ago, was merely a
country recipient of aid from world organisations. Many people had social
programmes from South Africa. India, also, had many international movements of
solidarity towards India financially. Brazil was in the same situation â a
country recipient until very recently. We still have millions of projects of
aid from civil society. The change that has happened is that we are no longer
countries of recipients of international aid in order to transform ourselves.
That is the big idea. That is what is really happening.
We are emerging economies. We have a lot of problems in each of our
countries â poverty, we still receive internal criticism from those who say,
and how is it possible that you are helping Guinea Bissau and Haiti when you
have so much poverty in India, Brazil and South Africa?
It is because we are proving that even if we are poor countries, not so
poor, but we are poor, we are able to share some of the bread that we have with
those who have less bread than we have.
The fact that the UN has given an award to the project of IBSA in Guinea
Bissau and Haiti is something to be proud of because we started with very
little but we did start on the right track. And Brazil, very soon will be able
to give more money as will India and South Africa. And very soon we will have a
fund with a reasonable amount of money to help poor people. Therefore if it
depends on me, IBSA should last forever.
Issued by: Department of Foreign Affairs
17 October 2007
